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V-Media: V-Media is one of the ongoing soap operas of the active computers.  Originally a Duron based system, a dead Gateway provided a 300 Watt power supply that allowed a backup Abit NF7-S to be activated once again.  However, during bencmarking, PCmark 2k4 failed at test #41, repeatedly.  While working on other projects, Windows began throwing up write to C: failures.  Suffice to say, the drive was toasted, and was replaced with a 20 gig from Viri.

Faced with reinstalling WinME and Win2k again, a hard choice was found.  The system had been running a Radeon 8500 AIW, which was what the Duron system could support.  The system had also been used for TV watching, but the completion of ViriTV and Viron made such features redundant. I refuse to run Nvidia GeforceFX, DeltaChrome, and Volari products in active day to day use.  Geforce6 and Radeon X800 are still outa of current price range.  While the 8500 benifits from DX 8.1 support, it is supposedly significantly slower than a Geforce Ti 4200. So I decided that while rebuilding the system to evaluate the Geforce4 card as a possible replacement for the 8500.




AthlonXp 2400+ Thoroughbred
Cpu Clock Speed :
FSB Speed : 266mhz
Artic Cooling Copper Silent 2
Abit NF7-S : Nforce MCP-T
Radeon 8500 128meg ATi All In Wonder | Geforce4 Ti 4200 Chaintech ViVo
1 gig Dual Channel 333mhz Ram : 2.5, 3, 3, 7
Hercules GameTheater Xp: Output to headphones
5 gig Maxtor ATA 33 / 20 gig WD ATA 100
30 gig Samsung ATA 100
52X CD
19” Samtron 96B
Datel PowerBoard
Kensington Mouse In a Box

Win2k:
Radeon 8500 Scores:
Default Speeds
Catalyst 4.8
Nforce 3.13

FFXI
3370

3dmark 2k3
1583

3dmark 2k1
10123

Aquamark
Gfx: 2,340
Cpu: 5,744
Overall: 19,437

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
49.99

Pcmark 2k4 :
Drive Failed

Ut2k4 Official Benchmark
Flyby: 103.77
Botmatch: 39.77



AthlonXp 2400+ Thoroughbred
Stable:
Cpu Clock Speed :
2138 Mhz
FSB Speed : 266mhz
Artic Cooling Copper Silent 2
Abit NF7-S : Nforce MCP-T
Radeon 8500 128meg ATi All In Wonder | Geforce4 Ti 4200 Chaintech ViVo
1 gig Dual Channel 333mhz Ram : 2.5, 3, 3, 7
Hercules GameTheater Xp: Output to headphones
30 gig Samsung ATA 100
52X CD
19” Samtron 96B
Datel PowerBoard
Kensington Mouse In a Box



Win2k:
Radeon 8500 Scores:
Default Speeds
Catalyst 4.9
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
3340

3dmark 2k3
1590

3dmark 2k1
10152

Aquamark
Gfx: 2,259
Cpu: 5,746
Overall: 18,886

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
49.99

Pcmark 2k4 :
3390

Ut2k4 Official Benchmark
Flyby: 101.54
Botmatch: 39.21
Win2k:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
default speeds
ForceWare 61.77
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
Crashed 1

3dmark 2k3
1580

3dmark 2k1
9919

Aquamark
Gfx: 1,842
Cpu: 5,728
Overall: 15,874

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
44.23

Pcmark 2k4 :
3347

Ut2k4 Official Benchmark
Flyby: 56
Botmatch: 38
Win2k:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
310 / 550
Forcware 61.77
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
Crashed 1

3dmark 2k3
1865

3dmark 2k1
crashed 2

Aquamark
Gfx: 2,355
Cpu: 6,663
Overall: 19,506

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
Incomplete 55.13 A

Pcmark 2k4:
crashed 3

Ut2k4 Official Benchmark
Flyby: 70
Botmatch: 44
WinME:
Radeon 8500 Scores:
Default Speeds
Catalyst 4.7
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
3390

3dmark 2k3
1488

3dmark 2k1
7632

Aquamark
Gfx: 2,001
Cpu: 5,508
Overall: 16,939

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
27.85

Ut2k4 Official Benchmark
Flyby: 48.83
Botmatch: 47.73
WinME:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
default speeds
ForceWare 61.76
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
crashed 1

3dmark 2k3
not enough memory 4

3dmark 2k1
crashed 5

Aquamark
Gfx: 
Cpu: 
Overall:  crashed 6

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
crashed 7

Ut2k4 Official Benchmark
Flyby: Crashed 9
Botmatch: Crashed 9
WinME:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
310 / 550
Forcware 61.76
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
crashed 1

3dmark 2k3
not enough memory 4

3dmark 2k1
crashed 5

Aquamark
Gfx: 90
Cpu: 5,504
Overall: 910

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
2.57 / crashed 7 | 8

Ut2k4 Official Benchmark
Flyby: 55.78
Botmatch: 43.10

Notes:

1: While the Geforce was able to complete a pass of FFXI, attempting multiple passes resulted in the computer shutting off then turning back on.

2: The Geforce4 continued to CTD when attempting to run 3dmark 2k1.

3: After a while of processing, the system just froze and would not respond.

4: The system would hang and give a not enough memory error when trying to complete the benchmark.

5: The system repeatedly froze on High Poly Count with 8 lights.  Unable to complete the benchmark

6: System froze on second Aquamark test and would not respond

7: Attempting to run the Source Benchmark resulted in CTD

8: dropping back to the Source defaults ( 800*600, simple reflections ) allowed the GF4 to complete the test. 

9: CTD

A: This score does not stand as the rendering was completely innaccurate.  The transparent soldier was a grey shape, and the floors and walls covered with a pink tint. Different driver versions caused the system to crash, and a complete deletion and reinstallation of steam failed to fix the issue.


AthlonXp 2400+ Thoroughbred
Stable:
Cpu Clock Speed : 2088 Mhz
FSB Speed : 333mhz
Artic Cooling Copper Silent 2
Abit NF7-S : Nforce MCP-T
Radeon 8500 128meg ATi All In Wonder | Geforce4 Ti 4200 Chaintech ViVo
1 gig Dual Channel 333mhz Ram : 2.5, 3, 3, 7
Hercules GameTheater Xp: Output to headphones
30 gig Samsung ATA 100
52X CD
19” Samtron 96B
Datel PowerBoard
Kensington Mouse In a Box


Win2k:
Radeon 8500 Scores:
default speeds
Catalyst 4.9
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
3506

3dmark 2k3
1598

3dmark 2k1
10640

Aquamark
Gfx: 2,280
Cpu: 6,785
Overall: 19,517

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
50.21

Pcmark 2k4 :
3412

Ut2k4 Benchmark
Flyby: 53.1
Botmatch: 37.7
Win2k:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
default speeds
ForceWare 61.77
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
3583

3dmark 2k3
1618

3dmark 2k1
crashed / 10582 1

Aquamark
Gfx: 1,803
Cpu: 6,720
Overall: 15,897

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
43.76

Pcmark 2k4 :
3428

Ut2k4 Benchmark
Flyby: 60
Botmatch: 35
Win2k:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
310 / 550
Forcware 61.77
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
3650

3dmark 2k3
1973

3dmark 2k1
11795

Aquamark
Gfx: 2,295
Cpu: 6,749
Overall: 19,618

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
Incomplete 56.16  A

Pcmark 2k4 :
3455

Ut2k4 Benchmark
Flyby: 107.8
Botmatch: 46
WinME:
Radeon 8500 Scores:
default speeds
Catalyst 4.3
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
3585

3dmark 2k3
1515

3dmark 2k1
10146

Aquamark
Gfx: 2,076
Cpu: 6,699
Overall: 17,978

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
46.35

Ut2k4 Benchmark
Flyby: 48.8
Botmatch: 37.7
WinME:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
default speeds
ForceWare 61.76
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
crashed 2

3dmark 2k3
crashed 3

3dmark 2k1
8631

Aquamark
Gfx:
Cpu:
Overall: crashed 5

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
3.66

Ut2k4 Benchmark
Flyby: 39.36
Botmatch: 34.53
WinME:
Geforce4 4200 Scores:
310 / 550
Forcware 61.76
Nforce 4.27

FFXI
crashed 2

3dmark 2k3
not enough memory 4

3dmark 2k1
11246

Aquamark
Gfx: 105
Cpu: 6,318
Overall: 1,052

HalfLife 2 Source Demo
crashed 6

Ut2k4 Benchmark
Flyby: crashed 7
Botmatch: crashed 7

Notes:

1: While the system was able to complete 3dmark2k1 on a single pass, it was unable to complete multiple passes required for the test.

2: System could complete a pass, but would CTD after multiple passes

3: Repetative CTD

4: The system would give a not enough memory error during the benchmark and CTD


5: system froze on second Aquamark test and would not respond

6: System locked up on CS Source Menu screen

7: Repeatitive CTD

A: This score does not stand as the rendering was completely innaccurate.  The transparent soldier was a grey shape, and the floors and walls covered with a pink tint. Different driver versions caused the system to crash, and a complete deletion and reinstallation of steam failed to fix the issue.


It's not often when testing hardware equipment that I come across a device or card that is deliberately set at not working, but the Geforce4 is most certainly that.  I had originally started out with Detonators 45.33 and Nforce 3.13.  However, the system could not succesfully complete any benchmark, so I tried every single driver set between then and now, settling on the cheat laden ForceWare 61.76 and 61.77 drivers, and the bugged Nforce 4.27 drivers. 

Keep in mind that many of these tests should actually not be compared to each other. While the Geforce competed with the Radeon 8500 at launch, time has favored the radeon card.  Most of the benchmarks use can use Pixel Shader 1.4 paths which gives the Radeon card a superior image in most cases. 

Win2k: I remember when the Radeon 8500 launched that it was supposed to compete with Geforce3, and that Geforce4 blew it away.  Sadly, that is not what I found. The Radeon 8500 remained competitive with the stock Geforce4, and continued to remain competitive against the overclocked GF4 in WinNT applications.  Outside of the tests, general computer stability under Detonator and Forcware was abysmal. Eventually, it got to the point of fustration that the speed of the computer was cut back, but I boosted the Front Side Bus.  The result was a more powerful CPU, and a more stable overclocked Geforce4.  However, while the Geforce4 was able to complete the benchmarks with the lower speed of the processor, it was unable to complete any of the stability or stress tests.

WinME: A lot of people have written to me stating I should try Geforce this, Geforce that.  Well, take a real good look at the performance Nvidia put forth in WinME (and look back to 2kPro as well).  Considering the abysmal performance of the Nvidia rep, why on earth would any sane person want to use Nvidia?

Also, taking an overall look at WinME compared to Win2k paints an even bleaker picture.  WinME simply cannot even think about handling today's titles, even with the best hardware available at the time WinME came out.  Maybe the picture might change, but honestly, if your using WinME, you are not going to be using modern Radeon 9500+, Radeon X300+, GeforceFX, or Geforce6 products.  If you are, give it up.  Please.  Move to Linux and use WineX if it means that much.

***For those who want to complain that Nvidia didn't get a fair shake, feel free to donate some extra change my way and get me a few other test subjects.***


Changelog 1.0 : removed 6gig drive for 20gig drive

Changelog 1.2 : removed 20gig drive due to bad sectors causing WinME to crash randomly.  Win2k percieved no issues... possible bad IDE cord?  Tests were completed without additional 20gig drive.

Document made with Nvu